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	<title>Comments on: Literary Sex</title>
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	<link>http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2010/01/20/literary-sex/</link>
	<description>A National Blog of Literature &#38; Discussion</description>
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		<title>By: clancy sigal</title>
		<link>http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2010/01/20/literary-sex/#comment-4167</link>
		<dc:creator>clancy sigal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Golly, gee, sex.  Roiphe&#039;s essay was a pretty good takedown of Eggers, Chabon, Wallace etc.  They deserve it.  &quot;Passivity, a paralyzed sweetness, a deep ambivalence about sexual appetite, are somehow taken as signs of a complex and admirable inner life.&quot;  Right, what&#039;s wrong with these guys anyhow?  Too cool and ironic, Roiphe says.  Probably she&#039;s right.  I guess.   Oddly, something is missing.  Ah yes, that&#039;s it, Abigail Adams to her husband John on his way to make a revolution: &quot;...remember the ladies, and be more generous and favorable to them...&quot;  Dear Katie, where are the women in all this?  I&#039;m straight hetero, but the last I heard fucking had a lot more to do with a relationship with a woman, and her responsiveness and her aggression and her orgasm and her attitude to the whole thing, no?  Isn&#039;t that what the &quot;transporting effects of physical love&quot; is all about?  But I&#039;m all with Katie when she exhorts, &quot;Why don&#039;t we look at these older writers who want to defeat death with sex?&quot;  All depends what you mean by older.  Updike, Mailer, Bellow, Roth, sure.  How about REALLY older?  O gosh, Hemingway and Catherine, Thomas (not Tom) Wolfe and Aline Bernstein, Henry Miller and June and Anais, even James Gould Cozzens&#039; Arthur and Clarissa Winner - the latter an extraordinary meditation on marital sex in the midst of a big potboiler.  One tango-ing isn&#039;t very interesting; two tangoing gets really hot.  Or did I get this wrong all this time?

Clancy Sigal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Golly, gee, sex.  Roiphe&#8217;s essay was a pretty good takedown of Eggers, Chabon, Wallace etc.  They deserve it.  &#8220;Passivity, a paralyzed sweetness, a deep ambivalence about sexual appetite, are somehow taken as signs of a complex and admirable inner life.&#8221;  Right, what&#8217;s wrong with these guys anyhow?  Too cool and ironic, Roiphe says.  Probably she&#8217;s right.  I guess.   Oddly, something is missing.  Ah yes, that&#8217;s it, Abigail Adams to her husband John on his way to make a revolution: &#8220;&#8230;remember the ladies, and be more generous and favorable to them&#8230;&#8221;  Dear Katie, where are the women in all this?  I&#8217;m straight hetero, but the last I heard fucking had a lot more to do with a relationship with a woman, and her responsiveness and her aggression and her orgasm and her attitude to the whole thing, no?  Isn&#8217;t that what the &#8220;transporting effects of physical love&#8221; is all about?  But I&#8217;m all with Katie when she exhorts, &#8220;Why don&#8217;t we look at these older writers who want to defeat death with sex?&#8221;  All depends what you mean by older.  Updike, Mailer, Bellow, Roth, sure.  How about REALLY older?  O gosh, Hemingway and Catherine, Thomas (not Tom) Wolfe and Aline Bernstein, Henry Miller and June and Anais, even James Gould Cozzens&#8217; Arthur and Clarissa Winner &#8211; the latter an extraordinary meditation on marital sex in the midst of a big potboiler.  One tango-ing isn&#8217;t very interesting; two tangoing gets really hot.  Or did I get this wrong all this time?</p>
<p>Clancy Sigal</p>
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		<title>By: Grant Faulkner</title>
		<link>http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2010/01/20/literary-sex/#comment-3994</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant Faulkner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 04:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vqronline.org/blog/?p=4570#comment-3994</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for your wonderful, thoughtful post. I agree, Roiphe’s article provides so many things to think about—some that she addresses directly and others that easily extend from her essay (e.g., it’s too bad she didn’t spread her wings a bit and discuss the writers who are exploring sex in interesting ways--they exist, as you mention).

Although she writes compelling stuff, my main problem with her essay is her notion of literary legacy. She selects a few contemporary, well-regarded authors—all white, male, and straight—and designates them as heirs to Updike, Roth, Mailer, etc. simply because they’re white, male, straight, and critically esteemed. This is where her comparison (and that god awful graphic that accompanied her article) is flawed.

Roiphe’s essay implies that as heirs, authors like Eggers, Chabon, and Franzen should pick up the mantle of Mailer, etc., and vigorously and provocatively write about sex in the same vein. I’d doubt that any of these writers sees themselves as heirs in this sense. In fact, it would be interesting to ask any of them if they’re writing in the tradition of Updike, Roth, and Mailer—simply because of their racial and sexual orientation. 

Is one, for example, a literary heir by such limited criteria. What if the main authors who influenced them were James Baldwin or Marguerite Duras or Kenzaburo Oe or Milan Kundera? Why should they have to write in the confines of Roiphe’s comparison? (e.g., I&#039;m of a similar generation and ilk of of the Eggers/Chabon crowd, and I&#039;ve never read Roth or Mailer and haven&#039;t read Updike since high school. Literary heirs? Not.) 

So, instead of critiquing their writing about sex, perhaps she could have designated them heirs of Hemingway and critiqued their war coverage. That doesn’t seem to be the subject of any of these young novelists. Does that mean they’re lacking? I don’t think any of them write road novels like Jack Kerouac either, or alcoholic trailer park stories like Raymond Carver come to think of it. Gosh, so much literary legacy for a young man to live up to. 

Do you see what I mean—in the end, Roiphe’s comparison criteria is without logic. Beyond the fact that genetics and sexual orientation shouldn’t define literary legacy these days, her essay begs the question, what young, male, straight authors did she leave out? Why should Eggers, Chabon, Franzen, etc. be carrying a baton handed off by Mailer and company? 

Roiphe’s essay ends up being similar to a playground taunt. She’s taken the macho high ground and is essentially teasing Eggers, Chabon, and Franzen for their sexual inadequacy. 

I’m happy for the reconsideration and celebration of writing that was deemed politically incorrect, but Roiphe should take her thought a step farther. 

I wrote more in my blog post on the subject: http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-32235-Oakland-Literature-Examiner~y2010m1d14-The-naked-and-the-conflicted-by-Katie-Roiphe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for your wonderful, thoughtful post. I agree, Roiphe’s article provides so many things to think about—some that she addresses directly and others that easily extend from her essay (e.g., it’s too bad she didn’t spread her wings a bit and discuss the writers who are exploring sex in interesting ways&#8211;they exist, as you mention).</p>
<p>Although she writes compelling stuff, my main problem with her essay is her notion of literary legacy. She selects a few contemporary, well-regarded authors—all white, male, and straight—and designates them as heirs to Updike, Roth, Mailer, etc. simply because they’re white, male, straight, and critically esteemed. This is where her comparison (and that god awful graphic that accompanied her article) is flawed.</p>
<p>Roiphe’s essay implies that as heirs, authors like Eggers, Chabon, and Franzen should pick up the mantle of Mailer, etc., and vigorously and provocatively write about sex in the same vein. I’d doubt that any of these writers sees themselves as heirs in this sense. In fact, it would be interesting to ask any of them if they’re writing in the tradition of Updike, Roth, and Mailer—simply because of their racial and sexual orientation. </p>
<p>Is one, for example, a literary heir by such limited criteria. What if the main authors who influenced them were James Baldwin or Marguerite Duras or Kenzaburo Oe or Milan Kundera? Why should they have to write in the confines of Roiphe’s comparison? (e.g., I&#8217;m of a similar generation and ilk of of the Eggers/Chabon crowd, and I&#8217;ve never read Roth or Mailer and haven&#8217;t read Updike since high school. Literary heirs? Not.) </p>
<p>So, instead of critiquing their writing about sex, perhaps she could have designated them heirs of Hemingway and critiqued their war coverage. That doesn’t seem to be the subject of any of these young novelists. Does that mean they’re lacking? I don’t think any of them write road novels like Jack Kerouac either, or alcoholic trailer park stories like Raymond Carver come to think of it. Gosh, so much literary legacy for a young man to live up to. </p>
<p>Do you see what I mean—in the end, Roiphe’s comparison criteria is without logic. Beyond the fact that genetics and sexual orientation shouldn’t define literary legacy these days, her essay begs the question, what young, male, straight authors did she leave out? Why should Eggers, Chabon, Franzen, etc. be carrying a baton handed off by Mailer and company? </p>
<p>Roiphe’s essay ends up being similar to a playground taunt. She’s taken the macho high ground and is essentially teasing Eggers, Chabon, and Franzen for their sexual inadequacy. </p>
<p>I’m happy for the reconsideration and celebration of writing that was deemed politically incorrect, but Roiphe should take her thought a step farther. </p>
<p>I wrote more in my blog post on the subject: <a href="http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-32235-Oakland-Literature-Examiner~y2010m1d14-The-naked-and-the-conflicted-by-Katie-Roiphe" rel="nofollow">http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-32235-Oakland-Literature-Examiner~y2010m1d14-The-naked-and-the-conflicted-by-Katie-Roiphe</a></p>
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